gassho
-juan

Take care! K

Interestingly though, as i study Shingon, I see lots of Shin elements in it, or is it the other way around? Namely the notion of “conferring” power upon a disciple is the main thing. In my “intro to shingon” post written a few months ago, I mentioned that the idea in Shingon is through devotion to a deity, that deity confers their wisdom or attributes to the disciple, and in a similar way, the disciple of Amida is “granted” his karmic benefits, and extinction of ignorance, so they’re similar in that regard.

All the rituals, mantras and such, however are most definitely not in Shin Buddhism.

Anyways, it was a fun chat, and I appreciate your input on the subject!

What I was trying to say in the fascinating discussion we had when we met was not that Shin is ‘esoteric’ but rather that it has elements that seem like a kind of ‘exoteric tantra’.

You covered one part of this when you wrote about tantric ritual. I think that for many Shin followers the Dharmakara-Amida narrative, especially as embodied in chanting Sanbutsge and Juseige, plays a similar role.

The other thing I had in mind was Shinran’s fondness for this imagery:

“Obstructions of karmic evil turn into virtues;
It is like the relation of ice and water:
The more the ice, the more the water;
The more the obstructions, the more the virtues.”

This seems very similar to the tantric saying “‘When there is more wood (passions) there is more fire” although Shin followers don’t deliberately add wood to the fire … just experience Amida’s light melting the ice of karma in daily life.

I guess what I was getting at is that Shin is a lot like tantra at times even though devotees don’t need to see or know that. In that sense it has esoteric dimensions but is not esoteric in terms of the practitioner’s path.

Dave F: Yeah a huge, huge part of Buddhism is just classic mind training. Train your mind enough with wholesome habits, and eventually you reach critical mass and have those habits ingrained.

Oregonnerd: My wife tells me all the time I need to work on being less wordy, so I know your pain.

–anyway–

Glenn
8]

I found this posting to be very interesting. I think the metaphor of Kabuki used to describe tantric ritual is apt. This reminds me of Aristotle’s notion that habit precedes understanding. Sometimes by acting “as if” we eventually ingrain in ourselves certain patterns of behavior and thinking that change us profoundly. We may not completely understand them at first but later time brings perspective. If we become attuned to the nembutsu in our lives and depend on Amida’s vow it can transform us even before we totally understand it. That’s what I’m hoping anyway . . .

Fame at last!!

<”The topic in question is intended for a Buddhist, namely a Pure Land Buddhist audience…”

Although I tend to identify as a Zen Buddhist, I have a very long background in Ch’an Buddhism. I truly enjoy your Pure Land posts, Gerald. Thank you for sharing your journey with me.

Um, no. There is only one writer, thanks. The topic in question is intended for a Buddhist, namely a Pure Land Buddhist audience, as evinced in other writings, and the overall “feel” of the blog, so that’s why the topic may not be readily clear. How the blog post even managed to make the frontpage of WordPress for today is beyond me though. :p

Thanks and welcome to the L8B.

Again, thank you for your blog entry/article.
–Glenn