(I’m writing this in response to a number of queries made elsewhere, not you, Marcus. )

And thank you so much for your comments! No, I didn’t think for a minute that you were talking about TNH or HH! LOL

And I agree entirely with the point you are making here, and I think it is a point that needs often to be made. Thank you.

But I do wonder if you could just say some more about what makes a teacher legitimate or not in your opinion beyond just gut instinct. Or perhaps that is the point – to go with one’s gut instinct.

But……

….when I first came across the organisation I took refuge with I had many reservations. It’s headed by a single teacher, whose writing appear on the walls of the temples, whose photo appears in every temple magazine, and whose followers show a huge amount of devotion.

On the one hand I was thinking ‘oh, oh, danger’ and on the other I was thinking ‘well, I’m sure it’s pretty much the same at Plum Village’.

Now, suppose I had stumbled across a dangerous cult? What are the things to look out for besides gut instinct? You see, focus on a single individual does not make for a cult – TNH and HH are the two best examples of personality dominated groups that are not cults by any stretch of the imagination.

So what danger signals do exist? I think that’d make for a great post.

And my single idea would be the group’s relationship to money.

At my temple I was never asked for a donation, never pressured into giving one, and when I think of all that I recieved from the temple compared to what little I gave, I am sure they lost a lot of money having me there! LOL

So I think one of the characteristics of a cult would be that they’d soon be taking money off you!

Anyway, I’m rambling, just want to say thanks again for a great post and a good discussion.

With palms together,

Marcus

No I definitely wasn’t referring to either TNH or Dalai Lama. Beyond that, I prefer not to say who I had in mind. Coincidentally I attended a meditation class by one such teacher whom I was referring to, and found it pretty disappointing. I can’t put my finger on “why”, but just felt that the teachings were being exclusively filtered by this one teacher (who was somewhere far away anyways), and no one seemed to question it. I guess I am just being cynical.

I believe it’s important to revere one’s teachers (and I do), but at the same time not ride all our beliefs on what they say and think. Even the best teachers are still men (or women) who make mistakes. If we elevate them too much, we get disappointed. If the teacher is charismatic, but corrupt and a megalomaniac, we can get hurt or far worse. It’s a gamble I guess, and I prefer to hedge my bets on organizations that have been around long enough to not depend on one single personality for guidance.

Nice post and one I certainly can’t disagree with. However, when you say….

“I guess that’s why I get leery with any great spiritual leaders I see in Western Buddhist movements. Some of them I feel are motivated largely by ego and power…”

…I can’t help but wonder who exactly you mean! I’m not asking you to name names, but I wonder if you have any other set of criteria for judging a Buddhist leader other than your own gut feelings? That would make a very useful post I think.

For example, let’s take Thich Nhat Hahn. Or the Dalai Lama. Would you include their groups when you say “I tend to shy away from any group devoted to one spiritual leader or teacher, no matter how good his credentials or lineage is”?

What, apart from your own instict (although that may be enough of course) would you say differentiates the value of one leader from another? After all, as you know, in some schools of Buddhism one’s relationship with one’s teacher is of huge importance and this is a vital question.

Anyway, thanks again for the post and all the best,

Marcus

Welcome back to the JLR (I recognized you from your own blog ). Yes, I think this would help a lot of people avoid being let down, or even manipulated.