Cultural pressure to not be Buddhist
Posted: March 24, 2008 | Author: Doug | Filed under: Buddhism, Religion | 23 Comments »I was pretty annoyed this morning, when I checked a question on Yahoo Answers (how to convert to Buddhism) to find that someone’s comment about Buddhism being idol worship was overwhelmingly voted the best answer. I checked the person’s profile, and they were someone who had grown up Buddhist, didn’t understand it, and converted to Christianity. I’ve seen that happen before among Asian-Americans, even at my temple, but what annoyed me further was how many people supported their answer. Clearly, a lot of Western people believe, without looking into why Buddhism is the way it is, that Buddhism is just a bunch of asian idol worship, even people who grow up in the culture.
This is pretty disheartening to someone like me whose really trying to follow the path as best I can. The last thing someone needs to be reminded is that everyone around you follows a totally different religion and looks down on yours as something primitive or heathenish. It’s also disheartening to see a lot of people who grow up Buddhist leaving the religion because they don’t understand it. For them it’s ossified into dry rituals and worship, and its the fault of priests and parents who don’t educate their kids about the meaning of it all. However, I bet the parents likewise don’t get it either, and just follow along because their parents did too.
Recently, while having a conversation with a Buddhist priest I know online, he told me that in the end Buddhism has to be practiced alone. We came into this world alone, and we’ll die alone. He’s got a good point, but growing up in a non-Buddhist culture makes this significantly harder. There is strong pressure from people all around you to conform and just follow the majority religion.
Of course, when you really think about it deep down, what other people think of me and my beliefs doesn’t really matter (like all things, it’s just empty anyways). I suppose half the reason why we seek out other people and books of the same religion is for a sense of validation, and validation is also empty in the long-run. Even blogging is its own effort to find validation. :p
I wonder if people in the majority religion likewise practice it just to maintain their own sense of validation, or fear of standing out in a crowd.
Anyways, random musings from someone who didn’t sleep well last night (I think I am coming down with a cold…).
Hello, this blog is about my life as a father, Buddhist and Japanophile. Any useful information I can pass along will hopefully make the 
Sorry to hear about your cold.
Also sorry to hear that someone said “Buddhism has to be practiced alone.” I don’t think I’d agree with that at all. To the extent that we’re all interconnected, none of us is “alone.” Hm. Makes one think.
Also also sorry to hear that we lost one to Christianity! Drats. Hate it when that happens…. (sarcasm meter set to high)
Christiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnns!
For my part, it is annoying whenever someone is wrong on the internet, too, but at least the people in question care enough about religion to think about it. Most religions, mainstream or not, have a vast majority of disinterested cultural followers.
Hi Scott,
I actually agree with the fellow (the priest) in that we ultimately practice alone. I was the first to voice it to him, and he reminded me that we’re alone at birth, and at death. Of course, we are interconnected like you said; I wouldn’t be what I am were it not for a vast array of causes and conditions (family, culture, etc). However, at end of the day, it’s my choice to continue being Buddhist or not, no matter how much people try to convert me. I make the conscious decision to take refuge in the Three Treasures, as we all do, despite being a minority in this country.
The Sangha should bring like-minded people together to help and bolster each other, but one can’t rely on the Sangha all the time. When not around others, we have to rely on ourselves, or as the Buddha said, “Be an island unto yourself.”
Most religions, mainstream or not, have a vast majority of disinterested cultural followers.
Excellent point. I often forget that, but it is true, and explains a lot of silly behavior people see in churches, temples, whatever.
Religious converts usually take their religion far more seriously than those who happen to be born into a given religion. Conversion by definition implies an active relationship with the tradition, whereas for the “disinterested cultural followers” religion is just sort of “there”.
This isn’t to say you can’t engage with the tradition you were born into (or that conversion doesn’t happen for non-spiritual reasons), but many people who are born into a particular religion practice it in an instinctive and generally non-reflective manner. It’s just going through the motions.
I’m sorry to hear that you have a cold. I hope you feel better very soon.
I am not bothered by those who see reverence in Buddhism as the same as idol-worship. People may not understand that when I prostrate, offer incense, etc., it is an outward expression of the gratefulness I have in my heart for the Three Treasures. That’s ok. I still do it all the same.
“…really trying to follow the path as best I can.”
I know you are, Gerald. And just saying that helps people (like me!) who are trying to do the same.
Baekho, I think there’s a good-sized kernal of truth in there. Converts often (though not exclusively) do take it more seriously because of that active choice.
Speaking of choice, GF, I don’t know if I disagree or agree with the “alone” proposition. Just think it’s something interesting to think about. How much “real” free will we have if our collective karma has created our present circumstances which may limit our “actual” choices. Not something to base your beliefs or actions on; rather, just a fun philosophical game to play. I had this conversation with someone a week or two ago. It was a disaster, but only because she did take it as “interesting philosophical question”; she took as me challenging the very basis of her belief system.
Then again, she also thought gravity was caused by the earth’s magnetic sphere. So I guess you never can tell!
Baek: Like Scott, I think you have a good point there. People who in their adult years decide to switch religions usually have (in their mind) a compelling reason to do so. Folks who don’t may be content where they’re at, but then again contentment could either morph into apathy, or into peaceful religious outlook. Depends on the individual.
Jeannie: I wish I could share your calm outlook to such criticism. I am not at that point yet. I still get defensive even though I know it’s pointless to do so.
Scott: Of course you’re right in that we have a very limited sense of free-will, but that’s nothing new in Buddhism. That’s why the Buddha encouraged the practice of mindfulness, so we could look beyond the behaviors and beliefs we’ve taken for granted. Jodo Shinshu teaches an even more limited sense of free-will, but lately I’ve been challenging my background in Jodo Shinshu quite a bit, so I don’t necessarily agree with this sentiment anymore.
Gerald: Do you have a link to the yahoo discussion in question? I’d love to take a look.
Erg: What does “Christiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnns!” mean? Most of the Christians I know are very nice people for whom I have massive respect.
Jeannie: “I am not bothered by those who see reverence in Buddhism as the same as idol-worship.” Cool. That really is superb. Nice one.
All the best everyone,
Marcus
Marcus, it was a bad Khan joke. Sorry. it was really awful. And most of the people I know and love are Christians. I have no beef with them.
“I wish I could share your calm outlook to such criticism. I am not at that point yet. I still get defensive even though I know it’s pointless to do so.”
You know, you’re very educated, and I often forget that you have only been practicing for three years. We all need support, even an old, bull-headed Buddhist like me. I just want you to know that you’ve got my shoulder to lean on if you ever need it.
“Cool. That really is superb. Nice one.
”
Why, thank you, Marcus!
I think the Yahoo discussion could serve as a good opportunity to educate a non-Buddhist audience on the basic beliefs of Buddhism. Of course, it is entirely up to the reader to educate themselves further. Who knows- maybe people already have.
Marcus: Erg’s joke was from Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. It was very funny (since I know that movie all too well :p ).
Jeannie: How long have you been practicing? SOunds like it’s been a long while.
As for the Yahoo discussion, it’s closed. It’s not worth it anyways. I see this kind of “Buddhist sniping” on many of the questions.
Wow, it’s been almost 15 years now. Gosh, I’m getting old.
You and I both have been a witness to many a Buddhist sniping- especially frustrating when it was coming from other Buddhists. I’m glad we both ended that long and bumpy ride.
Erg: Sorry. I over-reacted to something that wasn’t even there. (Back to Buddhist basics for me!). I apologise. Silly of me to treat the wonderful L8 as if it were a catty discussion forum! So sorry to Gerald too.
Wishing all Peace and Happiness,
Marcus
Its cool marcus. Believe me, I can get very catty in discussion forums, its not a unrealistic assumptions. I just try not to claw gerald’s drapes since I am a guest here
Jeannie: Yeah, I am glad we ditched the whole Beliefnet scene. That place will make you old quick. :p I visit there now and then and it hasn’t changed one bit (other than new forum style).
Marcus: No worries at all.
I am actually happy to see so much discussion lately. Beats Buddhist forums any day.
Erg: We also need to talk about that mess you left behind the couch….
Gerald Ford wrote: Clearly, a lot of Western people believe, without looking into why Buddhism is the way it is, that Buddhism is just a bunch of asian [sic] idol worship, even people who grow up in the culture.
Let us recall, though, that Buddhism is not a single thing, not any single true teaching or practice. It is a movement based on the experience(s) of Siddhartha Gautama and the attempts of each generation inspired by Siddhartha to follow his example. Was his a singular experience or did it represent a class of experience or set of experiences, and what aspect of his life should we emulate if we think we can recreate what he experienced? Or are such expectation precisely the kind of trap he was advising us to avoid? Such movements inevitably become institutionalized to some degree for a variety of reasons, some worthwhile, others not. This isn’t a bad thing, but the question still remains – what of the Buddha’s experience should be remembered and honored and what is “just” baggage? The fact is that some Buddhists live their daily life as polytheistic statue worshippers and view Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as deities. Their sutras may suggest otherwise, their stated formal beliefs and the lessons taught by their monks and priests may say otherwise, but in everyday terms that is how they function, even if they don’t recognize it or acknowledge it directly.
This is the same as many people who, while officially stating their monotheistic beliefs and creeds from their Abrahamic religions, live in their secular societies as “practical atheists”. That is, while they may profess to believe one thing, their daily actions and attitudes suggest something else. And in the Christian tradition in particular, one also struggles with the question of which of Jesus’ experiences and insights should be emulated and which are just a load of Samsonite. For example, Fr. Thomas Keating has suggested that the success or failure of each generation of Christians can be measured by how well they incorporate the contemplative dimension of the Gospels, that is, seeing the Ultimate Reality as immanent as well as transcendent, or knowing God as “Abba”.
So, if the point of a religion is ONLY to reproduce certain rituals, beliefs, liturgies, documents, etc, then we can judge a religion on how well it is staying true to these things and making them important enough to each generation to recreate them and pass them on to the next generation. If the point of a religion is to help people to overcome their false, limited selves and become open to their greater nature, then we can judge a religion on how many people it assists in undergoing this spiritual transformation. Yet in order to help people with this transformation, having shared sacred symbols, spaces, and practices is essential (some may think this is true only at the beginning of the journey, but while the nature of the usefulness of such things change, they still fulfill many roles – it attachment to such symbols as an externality of what we are seeking that makes them an impediment). So then the tension is over whether the representatives of a religion are using such shared sacred imagery to assist in the spiritual transformation of those who come into contact with the religion or whether they are trying to recreate such imagery for its own sake.
This latter view can be understood in terms of judging whether someone is or isn’t a “true Buddhist” based on how that person dresses or talks, or the person does not follow a script of expectations for how the transformation should take place or it should “look like”. The same can be said of a “true Muslim”, or a “true Christian”, etc. Adherence to the right image takes precedence over inner transformation. Another way to say it is this – is Buddhism about producing “Buddhists”, or is it about liberation from the suffering caused by our delusions. Is Christianity about producing “Christians”, or is it about salvation from the confusion and pain of our estrangement from God (the Divine, Ultimate Reality, etc). As many have pointed out before, the Buddha wasn’t a Buddhist and Christ wasn’t a Christian, so when we consider what it means to be a member of a religious tradition, we should be asking, “What’s the point?” “What is this tradition trying to show me?”
Gerald Ford wrote: This is pretty disheartening to someone like me whose really trying to follow the path as best I can. The last thing someone needs to be reminded is that everyone around you follows a totally different religion and looks down on yours as something primitive or heathenish…
Of course, when you really think about it deep down, what other people think of me and my beliefs doesn’t really matter
Why? Why are you, or I, or anyone else following this or that “path”? On the one hand, it is true that we must risk the disapproval of others to be true to our goals, but what are those goals? Is it strictly an offshoot of Western individualism – a kind of do-it-yourself-improvement hobby? Is it about finding a way to truly live which embraces all sentient beings? Something else? And if it, whatever it is, is a worthy goal, then in a way it does matter what others thing of us. That is, are we living in a way that demonstrates we really honor what we claim to follow and that we are sincere in our vision? As a student of Jon Kabat-Zinn reportedly once said, “When I was a Buddhist, it drove my parents and friends crazy, but when I am a Buddha, nobody is upset at all.” This isn’t the same as conforming by truncating or abdicating our values or objectives. It is about examining what really matters and when we should take a stand or make a correction and when we should not.
As for the reminder of what other people think, we can benefit from recognizing the pervasiveness of ignorance and suffering in the world, and in recalling our own failing, practice generating empathy and bodhicitta. Of course, I personally often have immense trouble doing this myself… ;o)
Gerald Ford wrote: It’s also disheartening to see a lot of people who grow up Buddhist leaving the religion because they don’t understand it. For them it’s ossified into dry rituals and worship, and its the fault of priests and parents who don’t educate their kids about the meaning of it all. However, I bet the parents likewise don’t get it either, and just follow along because their parents did too.
This may or may not be true, but it’s not always the fault of the priest or the parent. The same tradition isn’t always right for everyone at every time. Some people leave their birth religion and then “rediscover” it later in life. This gets back to what I was saying above about the goals of each religion (or each branch or congregation).
Gerald Ford wrote: Recently, while having a conversation with a Buddhist priest I know online, he told me that in the end Buddhism has to be practiced alone. We came into this world alone, and we’ll die alone.
This is somewhat true but also absolutely wrong.
Gerald,
Good post.
Dave,
That’s one hell of a long comment!
A long comment…….but a good one!
“The fact is that some Buddhists live their daily life as polytheistic statue worshippers and view Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as deities. ”
True. And why not? Why shouldn’t people do just that? Who is to say that hours of intense meditation is any better than the faith of a simple person praying to their Buddha?
I’m sure that worshipping the Buddhas is just as sure a route to “generating empathy and bodhicitta” as any other.
Thank you Dave.
Yes good comment Dave, I got a little intimidated by its sheer volume at first, lol.
Sorry, I have been in the middle of a lot of writing lately so I guess my verbosity switch was still turned to the ON position… *blush*
Bah, no need to apologize Dave. I always enjoy your thoughts on subject.
Gerald – good blog. i get it all the time brother. It’s especially hard for me since religion and spirituality interests me soo much. I like to read and understand Islam, Judiasm, and the lot… however, (living in the “bible belt”) I can help but get the “crazy eyes” from people when I mention something from the Koran or quote from Lao Tzu. Sadly, the most intolerant are the Christians (in my life). I believe in Jesus.. as I believe in the Buddha, but for some reason it’s “wrong” to speak of them in the same paragraph. Compassion and love was introduced by the Buddha 500 years or so before Jesus came around. Most that I talk with, don’t listen to me solely because (just my opinion) they feel that Jesus has the monopoly on wisdom (many don’t even know that the Koran has even more writings of “Christ” than the Holy Bible does). Rigidity is a curse. To be open and embrace the compassionate nature within us should be the only “religion.” There… I said it. (I think Jesus would have agreed with me too)